For the Love of Jackie Robinson: PessiMets v. OptiMets
There's a war brewing, and it's simmering right under our noses. It's the in-fighting among Mets fans over who is the better fan. Is it the optimist? The eternal believer? The one that keeps telling themselves "Ya Gotta Believe!" Or is it the pessimist? The long sufferer? The one that expects nothing and is surprised when something comes his/her way?
I know everyone has an opinion. It seems you can't go talk about the Mets anywhere nowadays--chat rooms, twitter, facebook, friends, coffee shops, the office--without immediately classifying yourself and the person standing before you as either a pessimist or an optmist. And I've noticed that what starts out as a genuinely interesting conversation about BASEBALL eventually degenerates into a bickering contest over who has the better fan pedigree.
The conversation usually can be boiled down to these statements:
"Ya gotta believe!"
"I do believe. Believe that they'll pull the rug out from under us, just like they do in every situation."
"What's the point of being a fan if you can't enjoy the game?"
"I am a fan. I want them to win. I just know they won'.t"
"What about that game two days/weeks/months ago where we pulled that incredible win out of nowhere?"
"The deviation from the norm."
"Why are you so bitter?"
"Because I'm a Mets fan. Because I've lived through 2006-09, because of the 90s. Because of the organization and because of the strikeouts with RISP. This team doesn't have it. They're not going to make it this year."
"They might. Anything can happen in baseball. Stop being such a pessimist."
"You need to wake up."
People who know me will know I'm generally on the optimistic side, but I rarely actually engage in this argument at all. It's not my place to tell another fan how to be or how to experience their fandom. And it bums me out when a good conversation about baseball starts degenerating into this bickering because at the end of the day: WHO CARES. I've found the best way to deal with this argument is simply to leave. There's no endpoint to this discussion. No one is backing down and admitting, "You're right, I was wrong. I'll agree with you from now on." Why get aggravated about something like this? It's like arguing about politics and religion. Just don't do it.
I mean.. ultimately, who cares if you're a pessimist and I'm an optimist? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We could all live happily side by side (and I've been doing just that so far) as long as someone doesn't turn out to be "That Guy." You know the guy I mean. The "I Told You So" Guy. And this applies equally to both sides. When the Mets win, there are always some optimists that turn to their pessimistic friends and say, "I told you so! Ya gotta believe!" Friends, this only makes the pessimists dig their heels in deeper. Or when the Mets lose, there are some pessimists who will grin sardonically and shake their heads at their friends' misery and say, "I told you so. Why do you even bother to be surprised?" And yes, you guessed it, that only makes the optimists dig their heels in deeper as well.
Who's "right"? If the way you deal with loss is to believe "We'll get them next time!" Great. If you the way you deal with loss is to believe "They're a garbage team that didn't have a chance in the first place." Great. But leave right v. wrong out of it, or we all end up tense and unhappy... and there's already plenty to be unhappy about when you're a Mets fan.
I want to prevent a war amongst fans. If we could just co-exist and not start comparing sizes of our respective fandoms, that'd be great.
I hate when fans ask other fans, "So... how long have you been a fan?" "When did you become a fan?" "How?" Like there's some ranking system and a way you have to prove yourself. Bandwagoners, new fledgling fans, old-timers who lived through the shoe polish incident... They're all fans, just the same as the rest of us. I mean, if you've been a fan for decades, but the reason you *became* a fan was because you jumped on the bandwagon back in '86, does that diminish your fandom now? If you became a fan right after 2007's awful collapse, does that somehow make you more or less impressive? Is your schwartz as big as mine?
And the silliest thing of all is the variation of this line: "If you were a REAL Mets fan, you'd think/believe/feel THIS."
Anyone can use this line for any purpose.
If you lived through the 90s, you'd really know what it meant to believe and you'd be a REAL fan.
If you lived through the 2007 and 2008 "collapses," you'd know exactly why I know this team isn't capable and you'd be a REAL fan.
What the eff is a "real" fan anyway?
I'll tell you what. The building I live in has a maintenance supervisor named Alex. He's been a lifelong Mets fan. Until the 2007-2008 collapse. He jumped ship this year and became a Yankees fan. When I posted this story on my Twitter, EVERYONE uniformly expressed disgust. Optimists. Pessimists. Hell, even non-baseball fans knew there was something inherently immoral about it. When push comes to shove, we're all in it for the same reasons. We're ALL "real" fans, so can we please stop bickering about it? We are all undergoing the same excruciating pains of loss and injuries and poorly played baseball. Everyone deals with it in different ways. I can respect your coping mechanisms if you can respect mine. I won't tell you you're wrong to be an pessimist, but please don't tell me I'm wrong for being an optimist.
And for the love of Jackie Robinson, please don't anyone be the dreaded "I Told You" guy.
I know everyone has an opinion. It seems you can't go talk about the Mets anywhere nowadays--chat rooms, twitter, facebook, friends, coffee shops, the office--without immediately classifying yourself and the person standing before you as either a pessimist or an optmist. And I've noticed that what starts out as a genuinely interesting conversation about BASEBALL eventually degenerates into a bickering contest over who has the better fan pedigree.
The conversation usually can be boiled down to these statements:
"Ya gotta believe!"
"I do believe. Believe that they'll pull the rug out from under us, just like they do in every situation."
"What's the point of being a fan if you can't enjoy the game?"
"I am a fan. I want them to win. I just know they won'.t"
"What about that game two days/weeks/months ago where we pulled that incredible win out of nowhere?"
"The deviation from the norm."
"Why are you so bitter?"
"Because I'm a Mets fan. Because I've lived through 2006-09, because of the 90s. Because of the organization and because of the strikeouts with RISP. This team doesn't have it. They're not going to make it this year."
"They might. Anything can happen in baseball. Stop being such a pessimist."
"You need to wake up."
People who know me will know I'm generally on the optimistic side, but I rarely actually engage in this argument at all. It's not my place to tell another fan how to be or how to experience their fandom. And it bums me out when a good conversation about baseball starts degenerating into this bickering because at the end of the day: WHO CARES. I've found the best way to deal with this argument is simply to leave. There's no endpoint to this discussion. No one is backing down and admitting, "You're right, I was wrong. I'll agree with you from now on." Why get aggravated about something like this? It's like arguing about politics and religion. Just don't do it.
I mean.. ultimately, who cares if you're a pessimist and I'm an optimist? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We could all live happily side by side (and I've been doing just that so far) as long as someone doesn't turn out to be "That Guy." You know the guy I mean. The "I Told You So" Guy. And this applies equally to both sides. When the Mets win, there are always some optimists that turn to their pessimistic friends and say, "I told you so! Ya gotta believe!" Friends, this only makes the pessimists dig their heels in deeper. Or when the Mets lose, there are some pessimists who will grin sardonically and shake their heads at their friends' misery and say, "I told you so. Why do you even bother to be surprised?" And yes, you guessed it, that only makes the optimists dig their heels in deeper as well.
Who's "right"? If the way you deal with loss is to believe "We'll get them next time!" Great. If you the way you deal with loss is to believe "They're a garbage team that didn't have a chance in the first place." Great. But leave right v. wrong out of it, or we all end up tense and unhappy... and there's already plenty to be unhappy about when you're a Mets fan.
I want to prevent a war amongst fans. If we could just co-exist and not start comparing sizes of our respective fandoms, that'd be great.
I hate when fans ask other fans, "So... how long have you been a fan?" "When did you become a fan?" "How?" Like there's some ranking system and a way you have to prove yourself. Bandwagoners, new fledgling fans, old-timers who lived through the shoe polish incident... They're all fans, just the same as the rest of us. I mean, if you've been a fan for decades, but the reason you *became* a fan was because you jumped on the bandwagon back in '86, does that diminish your fandom now? If you became a fan right after 2007's awful collapse, does that somehow make you more or less impressive? Is your schwartz as big as mine?
And the silliest thing of all is the variation of this line: "If you were a REAL Mets fan, you'd think/believe/feel THIS."
Anyone can use this line for any purpose.
If you lived through the 90s, you'd really know what it meant to believe and you'd be a REAL fan.
If you lived through the 2007 and 2008 "collapses," you'd know exactly why I know this team isn't capable and you'd be a REAL fan.
What the eff is a "real" fan anyway?
I'll tell you what. The building I live in has a maintenance supervisor named Alex. He's been a lifelong Mets fan. Until the 2007-2008 collapse. He jumped ship this year and became a Yankees fan. When I posted this story on my Twitter, EVERYONE uniformly expressed disgust. Optimists. Pessimists. Hell, even non-baseball fans knew there was something inherently immoral about it. When push comes to shove, we're all in it for the same reasons. We're ALL "real" fans, so can we please stop bickering about it? We are all undergoing the same excruciating pains of loss and injuries and poorly played baseball. Everyone deals with it in different ways. I can respect your coping mechanisms if you can respect mine. I won't tell you you're wrong to be an pessimist, but please don't tell me I'm wrong for being an optimist.
And for the love of Jackie Robinson, please don't anyone be the dreaded "I Told You" guy.
Unfortunately I have to disagree - there are levels of fandom that definitely exist. I don't think it's right to tell other people how to be fans - and I definitely agree that it's obnoxious to tell someone they aren't a 'real fan'.
However as a born and bred Met fan - who grew up with the not so lovable losers in the 70's - I definitely feel a history with this franchise that a fan who started following the Mets recently wouldn't understand. I don't feel like being a Met fan is a choice for me as much as it's part of my DNA.
There are definitely more casual fans out there - and I think that's great - and I'm certainly not the kind of person to demean or criticize their right to root for the team.
But is it ok to say - I definitely do feel a special bond when I meet a fan who recalls sending in DairyLea milk proof of purchases for free nosebleeds at Shea. Who remembers the sound that a Skip Lockwood fastball made in those rare wins he closed out in the 70's. I could go on and on...
Unfortunately there is one thing I will not tolerate in someone who calls themself a Met fan (call me an elitist after all):
1 - You cannot be simultaneously or ever in your past have been a Yankee fan.
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Thanks for commenting!
I definitely understand what you're saying, but I think my point was just slightly different. It's true that the longer you've been a fan, the more memories you build up with the team and the more camaraderie you feel with other fans that can share those moments with you. I know the feeling and can recognize its worth.
What I meant was that the fans with deep history with the team don't have a better claim on the team through their fandom. The older fans aren't "better" fans than the younger fans, they just have a longer history with the Mets, which is great.
And the way that relates to the entire post is just to say that sometimes pessimists *use* their older fandoms to knock down the younger fans, and I think that's erroneous too. What does how long you've been a fan have to do with how much you believe in your team? The ones that say things like, "You didn't live through the 90s, so you don't know." or "I've been with this team for decades, so I have a right to say these things" (implying that the young 'un does not).
*that's* what I think is wrong.
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AI YA! Perhaps I missed the point. Now I know you're going on hiatus but since MLB has so nicely decided to use my e-mail address as my username -feel free to respond there - or just let this comment lie unread to dissipate into the internet without making a sound.
Isn't what your saying akin to saying that experience doesn't count? I'd have to say that as a Met fan for 30 some odd years that I've been there and done that with this team. The current crisis of 2009? We've gone through similar injury related crises in the past. Remember the recent Kazmir trade by the hated Steve Phillips?
Anyways - I think your point may be that some experienced Met fans may tend to denigrate, ridicule or shrug off some of the newer Met fans. I'm not defending those who are just obnoxious by nature.
But the difference is that my experience as a fan has given me perspective. So when I meet a recent or newer Met fan - frothing at the mouth to get something done to fix this season now - ignoring the long term (because maybe they're not in it for the long haul? they certainly haven't proven they are) - then maybe I might get a little condescending...
Look the amount of time - and specific experiences you have as a fan are all badges of honor. Truthfully they don't really mean anything - and each individual is different. But yeah - in general - those that have more badges - are more likely to be respected by me as fellow fans than those that do not. Is that really wrong?
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Interesting post, you should check out my blog, WWW.PESSIMETS.COM
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Interesting post, you should check out my blog,
WWW.PESSIMETS.COM
My blog is dedicated to the pessimistic Mets fan who feels the pain this team has delivered to us. In no way though do we look down upon Optimistic Mets fans www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan/
It's sort of just a way of life. My blog is dedicated to the fan that constantly sets their favorite team up for failure in their mind just so that when that failure happens they don't feel as disappointed or bad.
Nice site by the way!
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Interesting post, you should check out my blog,
WWW.PESSIMETS.COM
My blog is dedicated to the pessimistic Mets fan who feels the pain this team has delivered to us. In no way though do we look down upon Optimistic Mets fans www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan/
It's sort of just a way of life. My blog is dedicated to the fan that constantly sets their favorite team up for failure in their mind just so that when that failure happens they don't feel as disappointed or bad.
Nice site by the way!
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